Keix (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
keilexandra) wrote2008-09-26 10:13 pm
keilexandra) wrote2008-09-26 10:13 pm
Entry tags:
WCEC YG Report
So I went to the local Chinese church youth group tonight. Yeah, the conservative evangelical one; a Quaker-atheist friend had asked me, and I was interested in seeing what it was like. Verdict: I wouldn't mind going again, but I would definitely bring a notebook to take notes rather than trying to record in Events on my cell phone. Although today was abnormal--we watched a long clip on moral character, which was still running when I left--I still came out with some interesting thoughts and objections to specific arguments.
The speaker's argument in a nutshell--we are like sweet apple trees vs. crabapple trees. Our fruit is governed by our nature, and the only way to change is to be born again. He elaborates on this, never refraining from emotionally "loaded" words and even calling himself a "revolutionary pastor" (revolutionary vs. terrorist? --AP Lang), before seguing into discussion of nominal Christians. I actually agree that nominal Christians, those who attend church because everyone around them does and it's easiest to fit in, are deluding themselves; but rather than the devil's children, I see nominal Christians as unconscious closet atheists. I also have issues with the speaker's clear delineation of good vs. evil, Christian vs. Satanic. You don't even have to believe in Satan to be Satanic, apparently, since everyone not a born-again Christian is automatically of the devil. Perhaps a little extreme, n'est-ce pas?
Other thoughts and questions:
* Why do you love God? Jesus loves and died for humankind, yes, but that doesn't compel you to love him in return. Be grateful, say thank you, and move on--that seems to me the logical response. So why love, worship, and glorify God?
* Why is God the only way to a "good nature" and to morality? What makes God the right motive for being "good"? I don't believe that every non-true-Christian in the world is secretly acting selfishly just because he or she does not believe in the Christian God. I don't consider myself selfless, but I have witnessed truly selfless acts by atheists and agnostics. You don't need to trust in a higher deity to make a true sacrifice for someone else. Morality /=/ religion.
* Another analogy was made to "apple staplers" or "wolves in sheep's clothing" (paraphrased quote) in reference to nominal Christians. So, as an outspoken (and you might argue evangelical) atheist who fights to be heard expressing perhaps the most marginalized religious view in the United States today, am I a noble and trueChristian person? My point is that much of what Christianity, and this speaker, teaches about character is applicable and worthy. I just don't see why God is a necessary part of the equation.
I probably had other thoughts, but as I said, I had only my cell phone to take notes with--and I don't text so my typing skills are horrid. Responses and answers, anyone?
The speaker's argument in a nutshell--we are like sweet apple trees vs. crabapple trees. Our fruit is governed by our nature, and the only way to change is to be born again. He elaborates on this, never refraining from emotionally "loaded" words and even calling himself a "revolutionary pastor" (revolutionary vs. terrorist? --AP Lang), before seguing into discussion of nominal Christians. I actually agree that nominal Christians, those who attend church because everyone around them does and it's easiest to fit in, are deluding themselves; but rather than the devil's children, I see nominal Christians as unconscious closet atheists. I also have issues with the speaker's clear delineation of good vs. evil, Christian vs. Satanic. You don't even have to believe in Satan to be Satanic, apparently, since everyone not a born-again Christian is automatically of the devil. Perhaps a little extreme, n'est-ce pas?
Other thoughts and questions:
* Why do you love God? Jesus loves and died for humankind, yes, but that doesn't compel you to love him in return. Be grateful, say thank you, and move on--that seems to me the logical response. So why love, worship, and glorify God?
* Why is God the only way to a "good nature" and to morality? What makes God the right motive for being "good"? I don't believe that every non-true-Christian in the world is secretly acting selfishly just because he or she does not believe in the Christian God. I don't consider myself selfless, but I have witnessed truly selfless acts by atheists and agnostics. You don't need to trust in a higher deity to make a true sacrifice for someone else. Morality /=/ religion.
* Another analogy was made to "apple staplers" or "wolves in sheep's clothing" (paraphrased quote) in reference to nominal Christians. So, as an outspoken (and you might argue evangelical) atheist who fights to be heard expressing perhaps the most marginalized religious view in the United States today, am I a noble and true
I probably had other thoughts, but as I said, I had only my cell phone to take notes with--and I don't text so my typing skills are horrid. Responses and answers, anyone?