Why I'm Atheist, Reason #42

[keilexandra]

Or, more specifically, why I am generally against Christianity (and Islam, for the same following reason) and less so against other religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism.

Christianity doesn't tell impressionable young children, "God most likely exists and created this world and loves you, and here's why." It tells them, "God exists and created this world and loves you, therefore you should glorify Him, and anyone who says otherwise is terribly misguided, therefore must be led to the true path. By the way, if you sin and don't pray for forgiveness, you'll burn in Hell. But if you love God and praise Him, you'll be happy forever in Heaven!" ETA: Because multiple people have missed my point, through no fault of theirs, I am striking this through to mark it as an optional addition, although I still stand by it. But the unstruck section is a valid critique of all Christianity and its hereditary nature.

Monotheistic religions usually leave no room for doubt. And I've always believed that skepticism is healthy, regardless of your religious views--but hey, I'm a pessimist who looks forward to the idea of oblivion when I die. I'm obviously a not-to-be-trusted weirdo.

P.S. Go read Greta Christina's Top Ten Reasons I Don't Believe in God, especially the end of Part Two.

[statement of faith] As always, I am open to polite, reasoned, non-troll/spammer debate.

Comments

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

That depends very much on which branch of Christianity you're dealing with. There are, for example, Christian Universalists, who don't believe in Hell.

[keilexandra]

Well, Christian Universalists are pretty far left in terms of Christianity. Almost radical. I know someone--a hard-core atheist--who belongs to a Unitarian Universalist church.

Also, subtext that you had absolutely no way of perceiving: the post was made of out frustration with the fact that due to my mother's conversion a few years ago, my little sister (currently aged 4, turning 5 in November) will be raised in a very conservative evangelical Christian church. Conservative as in literal-interpretation and Creationism/ID.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

Yep, radicals exist. And "I don't want to be a radical within such a group" is a perfectly sound reason for not being a member, as are many other reasons starting with "I don't believe that stuff." I just feel like the screaming-about-hell Christians make their own press, so the Christian Universalists and their friends need to speak up in this sort of context and say no, Jesus does not make you certain about everything, and God is not an asshole who made carbon-dating possible to punish us for using our minds, and the people who tell you they have to believe that because they're Christians are wrong. They can be Christians and still have a choice about this stuff.

Which certainly doesn't negate your frustration. I'm sorry. That sucks.

[keilexandra]

I like Christian Universalists. Hell, I even like Lutherans. They're fun to debate with, without venturing into the banging-head-against-brick-wall experience of trying to argue with an evangelical IDer.

[haucuzha.livejournal.com]

About your sister: if your mother can influence her beliefs so can you.

About your frustrations: Don't generalize! Quakers are remarkably open-minded and believe in tolerance and are a "peace church." Episcopalians and some branches of Protestantism often take similar views.
As to what "Christianity" teaches children it often depends on the personal beliefs of the one teaching. My mother attended church with relative regularity during some points of her life and was the most the most devout religiously of my two parents but always preached tolerance and so did my school as far as I can remember.
"By the way, if you sin and don't pray for forgiveness, you'll burn in Hell. But if you love God and praise Him, you'll be happy forever in Heaven!"
Its only ever really that simple with radical Christians. A good deal (so far as I can tell) believe that if one does good deeds then God will love them and support them regardless of one's faith in God.
There are also so called "liberal Christians" which is a blanket term encompassing Christians who use Enlightenment-style thought in their approach to worshiping God.
Note that as an agnostic theist with no deal of interest in any organized religion this is all based on things I have learned and remembered from early on in life.

[keilexandra]

I'm going to be at college during the most influential phases of her life.

Quakers and Unitarian Universalists are notable exceptions. Also, tolerance is not exactly the opposite of my statement. My point was that Christianity starts on the basis that "God exists," NOT that "God probably/most likely exists, and here's why." God must exist for Christianity to exist; that's a fact.

I haven't actually met many of the "regardless of one's faith in God" Christians. Maybe you've had a different experience. Admittedly the bulk of mine has been with aforementioned highly conservative evangelical church. But the simplistic view of "radical Christians" was essentially my ex-boyfriend's main argument for converting me. Sweet, that he didn't want me to suffer for all eternity, but horribly brainwashing.

[wolfpurrs.livejournal.com]

It's not like being raised in a conservative evangelical home during her impressionable years damns your sister to Christianity and all its evils. When she's older, there's a 50-50 chance she may make choices similar to you, or your parents - I'd guess a blend with her own kick to it. If she looks up to you (I'd wager yeah), then she may very well find herself questioning without even meaning to. The fact that she has you is a lucky stroke, because in many families you could find nothing but blind obedience to the Christian faith - who would she look to in a home like those? Things could be a lot worse.

Incidentally, I know you've heard this before - do try and specify where you're pointing that finger a bit more than "[single religion overall perspective who follow God Jesus and Peanut Butter]".

I mean, go ahead and sing me the praises of Atheism all you want, as I do certainly appreciate the perspective. I am assuming that your basic reasoning behind the blunt negativism in the post was a combination of built up irritation and fresh anger at your situation. But if you want to avoid spammer and trolling types of responses, you may want to consider being a big more considerate of how you word yourself.

Incidentally, in the interests of defending "It could be worse" - check this out: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Jesus+Camp#

[sarahbrand.livejournal.com]

Pretty much all of what Erin said.

I grew up in a pretty conservative family in which everyone was Christian (except for an uncle whom I rarely saw) and I'm agnostic now, leaning atheist. I'm still sorting out all the cognitive dissonance resulting from that - there is a lot about Christianity that is very good, in the deepest sense of the word, and walking away from it is hard. But I know that wherever I eventually land, it will be my own decision, not my parents'.

[keilexandra]

I'm glad that you're able to make your own decisions--very, very glad, even if you ultimately return to Christianity. I respect my mother's decision to believe in God, even if I don't agree with her. But it is that "cognitive dissonance" that I want to save my sister; I guess I feel like she deserves a more privileged upbringing, the privilege of my upbringing--I was raised entirely agnostic in the purest sense of the word, because my childhood world in China was one in which the Christian God was just a Western alternative to Buddha (who is respected and revered but not worshipped). So I suppose I did become an atheist, but I was free to do so without severing the ties of church and engrained Christianity.

Also, see what I said to Erin. XD

[sarahbrand.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, but the aforementioned cognitive dissonance... actually not that big a deal. After the events of the past few years, the c.d. from trying to stay a conservative Christian would be far greater. (This probably deserves a post of its own.)

Anyway, anyone who chooses to believe something other than their parents' creed (whatever that may be) is going to have the same problem, to some extent. It's not specific to Christianity.

[keilexandra]

the aforementioned cognitive dissonance... actually not that big a deal

That's really good to know. Your previous comment, and my observations of other people, made me think otherwise. One acquaintance has chosen to remain indefinitely "in the closet" because her parents--both devout evangelical Christians belonging to the same local church as my mom--would freak. Badly. And from my glimpses of the church doctrine, I can sort of understand why.

[sarahbrand.livejournal.com]

Your previous comment, and my observations of other people, made me think otherwise

Well... yes and no. To stop believing was as easy as apathy. It's just that sometimes I wish I hadn't. If I still were able to believe in an omnipotent being who loves me beyond measure and has a plan for my life, things might not be better, but at least the bad parts of life would be easier to understand.

My parents were surprisingly cool about the whole agnostic thing when I told them, and it felt unbelievably good to not have to pretend anymore. "Coming out" might not be as bad as your friend thinks. Or then again it might, as I don't know her parents at all.

[keilexandra]

If I still were able to believe in an omnipotent being who loves me beyond measure and has a plan for my life, things might not be better, but at least the bad parts of life would be easier to understand.

And that, I think, is a central reason why religion in general, Christianity in particular, is so prevalent in the world. To be atheist or agnostic takes an expected exertion of willpower for the rest of your life, because you can't depend on someone else, or second chances after death; this one life is all you've got, and your choices are your own.

[keilexandra]

Can't find the article that tackled this specifically, but I remember reading an argument of why atheists shouldn't be expected to argue against all variations of Christianity. And my original point still stands--ALL Christians believe and teach that God exists. Not that he MIGHT exist or PROBABLY exist or LIKELY exists--he just exists, period. Even God's existence isn't a justification for Christianity, in my opinion, but that's a whole different topic. Here, I just want to say that, yes, left-Christians are very very different from right-Christians; but they are both called Christian for a reason, and not just because they believe in Christ. They also all, as far as I've found, believe in God.

However, you are indeed correct that the blunt negativism of my post was a result of pent-up feelings.

[wolfpurrs.livejournal.com]

I'm not so concerned about how you put things, because I understand that you know there are variations (though I think if I were inclined to be a snit like some people I know, I doubt an article telling atheists what they can and can't do would convince me). It's annoying to have to do the dance trying to avoid stubbing people's feelings, so I think in the state of mind you were in you did fine. All Christians sure do believe in God and Jesus, yup yup. I'm not sure where in my post I may have sounded like I was swaying against that. ^^; sorry, I'm kinda @.@ from drugs atm - sickly.

It's funny how it's always Christians and atheists who are at each others' throats, though. I don't think I've seen but perhaps three sites/articles/wherevers where there's been argument between Muslims and atheists, Jews and atheists, etc. Do you know any examples?

[keilexandra]

That's very true. I suppose Christians are more inclined to evangelize? (Which is both good and bad.)